[00:00:00] Janet Taggart: We’ve worked with people from tops of organizations all the way down, and we’ve seen this dynamic in practice. And so when we can equip those boots on the ground to where they feel more empowered to create the relationships and have the conversations that actually move the work forward where they can feel heard and appreciated, as well as the leaders likewise feeling that way.

[00:00:31] Then there becomes a synergy between the boots on the ground and those who are leading them, where they are actually more aligned toward those organizational goals.

[00:00:54] Stephanie Willmore: Welcome to the Leadership Transformations podcast. I’m your host, Stephanie Willmore, accountability coach with Peridot Circle Consulting. In this podcast, we explore real-life situations with the help of our two founders and principal consultants, Janet Taggart and Linda Linfield. Today, we are joined by Janet Taggart.

[00:01:13] Janet specializes in empowering leadership transformation from the inside out and coaching aspiring to executive leaders to become known for their highest value. Thank you for joining us again, Janet.

[00:01:25] Janet Taggart: I’m delighted to be here. I just love the topic we’re about to discuss, so let’s get to it.

[00:01:30] Stephanie Willmore: Great. Thank you. Yes. I’m excited about talking about our topic today as well, and really it is delving into a topic that is front and center for HR and business executives. And that is about creating a culture of leadership, not just at the executive level, but at every level of the organization. And today you have worked with many organizations and you’re really an expert in this area.

[00:01:59] And really what we’re going to talk about is how to empower organizations to create a culture with leaders at every level and how to operationalize that. That’s the key, what we’re getting into is not just aspire to it, but how to actually make it function. So let’s start at the top.

[00:02:18] When we say leaders at every level, what exactly do you mean by that? Why should HR and business executives care?

[00:02:26] Janet Taggart: Stephanie, thank you. That’s such a great question. When we talk about leaders at every level, we’re really referring to a mindset and a practice where leadership isn’t confined to role titles or roles.

[00:02:38] It is about creating a culture where individuals demonstrate their leadership at every level and in every role in a way that they think and in the way that they do their work. In essence, they become organization ambassadors. They’re the ones who carry the culture forward. They model the behaviors and mindsets that align with the organization’s values, and here’s why this particular thing matters.

[00:03:06] A vital attribute of leadership is the capability to get work done with and through other people. We would argue that is one of the definitions of leadership. And what we find is that many tech and non-tech employees, including individual contributors, subject matter experts or SMEs and team leads have jobs that require them to get work done with and through other people above their job level and seniority level.

[00:03:36] In these environments, hierarchy should be secondary to relationships based on mutual commitment and support. If you want scalable impact, you need leadership that doesn’t live solely in the C-Suite.

[00:03:51] Stephanie Willmore: Yeah. I think that resonates with a lot of people, especially in HR who might listen to our podcast. Those that we work with because while they’re tasked to build a leadership pipeline, they’re also tasked to make sure that day-to-day performance and cohesion is working well at every level.

[00:04:10] So how do they start developing that kind of culture? 

[00:04:13] Janet Taggart: What we found is that you develop that culture by clearly communicating the expectation that leadership is in a position. It’s a mindset and a practice, and this goes against, I think, the norms of what people expect. And so it is about creating this culture of leadership at every level, and this is achieved when employees, regardless of position, title, or job role, are able to become a multiplier of impact.

[00:04:44] Imagine that. Imagine every employee multiplying impact, like they have the ability to have that type of influence on the work they do and the people around them. This is true whether a person is developing along technical and people leadership tracks, both of which require employees to work with and through other people to accomplish their goals and objectives.

[00:05:11] As they demonstrate this type of leadership, the capability and capacity of the organization expands, and HR plays a pivotal role here through onboarding, performance management, learning and development, and coaching, HR can reinforce the expectation that leadership is about contribution, it’s about collaboration, and it’s about influence. And not just authority.

[00:05:41] Stephanie Willmore: No, I love that. And I really like that term that you used multiplier of impact and it that there’s some power to that phrase about how, everyone at every level can have that kind of an influence. And so could you share an example of what that looks like in action, with an organization you’ve worked with before?

[00:06:01] Janet Taggart: Oh, absolutely. You can even imagine a frontline team member who notices a breakdown somewhere. Maybe it’s in communication between departments, and then it’s impacting the work that they do. Instead of saying, “That’s not my problem,” or grousing complaining about it, they ask themselves, “What can I do within my controller influence to improve the situation or create a positive outcome?”

[00:06:27] It may be initiating a conversation to uncover possible solutions, or it could be proposing a solution of their own or simply emulating the change they wish to see, thereby inviting others to do the same. In other words, employees don’t wait for permission to multiply impact. They don’t need a title.

[00:06:49] They lead by attending to the issue at hand and the relationship surrounded. That’s leadership. If I were to get more granular and say, what examples do we have of this type of HR support toward this leadership at every level? We’re currently working with organizations that have adopted this leaders-at-every-level, in-every-role approach.

[00:07:13] Whether they have a flat organizational structure that requires all employees to interact with others on different levels. Or whether the organization has set high growth expectations that requires employees to break organizational silos in order to advance important goals and initiatives forward.

[00:07:31] Equipping employees with the mindset, the tools, and the skills to work effectively is really a game changer. One organization that we’ve worked with decided that every manager-level employee would get what we called Resilient Manager Training. We help these managers to navigate difficult conversations, practice how to give redirected feedback, and how to communicate more effectively with their leaders and their employees, and helped their employees do the same.

[00:08:12] And this training has such a powerful impact on the culture. We were noticing people were using the terminology used in the training and referred to those models and frameworks that we provided in their everyday work. It was really gratifying. And what’s funny is it even got mentioned several times in their employee engagement survey as one of the things they liked most about the company.

[00:08:29] Another organization that we are working with is providing development programs to all of their employees. This is an approach that helps their smaller, flatter organization work more effectively between business units. So there’s just all kinds of ways to implement something like this, and it really does need that HR support and help in order to move forward as well as the support of the organization itself.

[00:08:58] Stephanie Willmore: Those are some great examples. Thank you for sharing that. And that may be, depending on the organization, the approach might be a little bit different, but the goal and the aim is the same. So if I’m somebody in HR and I’m listening to this, how would I be able to embed those kind of behaviors or those types of trainings into my organization? What would I do? 

[00:09:18] Janet Taggart: I think it really starts at a granular level. And you could say it’s a mindset level, which I think is where lasting change always starts, and it’s that mindset shift is how you define and recognize leadership. Asking yourself, how can we reward people for how they lead, not just what they accomplish?

[00:09:44] So how they lead, not just what they accomplish. Leadership at every level is possible when the cultural expectation is for every employee to attend to both achieving tasks and strengthening relationships in the context of their roles. Hierarchy is a structural convenience for specific purposes, including alignment to vision and outcomes.

[00:10:08] That’s important. But it doesn’t really work well for fostering rapid progress toward complex outcomes and where subject matter experts are usually embedded deeper in the organization, where the hierarchal structures often cause them to feel unheard, unappreciated, marginalized, and even discouraged.

[00:10:29] We’ve worked with people from tops of organizations all the way down, and we’ve seen this dynamic in practice. And when we can equip those boots on the ground to where they feel more empowered to create the relationships and have the conversations that actually move the work forward where they can feel heard and appreciated as well as the leaders, likewise, feeling that way.

[00:11:05] Then there becomes a synergy between the boots on the ground and those who are leading them, where they are actually more aligned toward those organizational goals. It’s really important that this leadership at every level, that it is possible, and it comes in how we define and how we recognize leadership.

[00:11:23] It’s a cultural shift, really. 

[00:11:26] Linda Linfield: Yeah. And I imagine as you operationalize these things, as you implement these things, it takes time. Culture does not change overnight. 

[00:11:34] Janet Taggart: Absolutely. Culture really is a long game and it compounds over time. There’s an old saying that says culture eats everything, which in this context means that when your organizational culture includes leadership at every level, that expectation will permeate the organization to an extent.

[00:11:55] That rarely will a more senior person be called upon to mediate interpersonal conflicts. In some organizations that is an unheard of type of promise or goal because many leaders not only have their own high level of work to do, but they’re often being called upon to work with individuals who have those interpersonal conflicts.

[00:12:26] And when we can empower those individuals to help to work those conflicts out among themselves in a way that’s respectful, in a way that helps the other person feel heard and also to be heard in return in order to cause the right things to happen, tt really does free up that senior leader’s time in so many ways.

[00:12:53] I’ve coached so many senior leaders like this: they have all of these large strategic goals and opportunities in front of them, and they feel mired by these interpersonal conflicts. And so what we help them to do is help to empower their people in order to mediate those conflicts.

[00:13:17] It really is a multiplying of impact to use that phrase again. In this environment, if we say that we develop a culture where there is an expectation that there is leadership at every level, that when a person doesn’t collaborate or they don’t compromise, negotiate, or allow others to win, they’ll not last long.

[00:13:45] It won’t be an organization that they feel comfortable in. So in essence, the culture will eat their self-obsession and obstinacy, and actually that’s a good thing. 

[00:13:57] Stephanie Willmore: That is such a specific and vivid type of statement. The culture will eat their self-obsession and obstinacy. I think what you’re saying is that in a way when you can build that culture, it self-corrects and people will go.

[00:14:12] Whether they subscribe to that culture or not, they’ll find where they belong. I think that’s such an interesting idea, and it really paints a picture of how when you do develop that culture, it can become healthier and then everyone starts to play their part.

[00:14:29] Janet Taggart: Absolutely. And we hope that people who don’t have those skills will develop an appetite to learn them. But we’re talking about those who refuse and who are antithetical to the culture—those are the types of people that aren’t gonna support the way the organization wants to grow. And it’s because when everyone feels responsible for the culture, you get alignment, you get initiative, you get innovation.

[00:14:58] You don’t have to wait for directives. The energy flows from the ground up. Leaders at every level allows organizations to overcome the inertia created by learned helplessness, lack of ownership, and “it’s not my job — Myopia.”

[00:15:33] And that is pervasive among many in lower leadership and typical leadership, and those who don’t have a leadership role proper, a proper leadership role. A culture of leadership at every level helps employees exercise proactivity and ownership while building relationships of respect and trust.

[00:15:37] It also allows these employees to become more broadly known and appreciated for their capability and commitment. So it really is a win-win when the culture can embrace this type of leadership at every level. 

[00:15:52] Stephanie Willmore: Yeah. That’s great. And how would you translate all of these ideas and this process into training and development?

[00:15:59] So what should leadership programs include to foster that kind of culture?

[00:16:05] Janet Taggart: I would say that great leadership programs focus on three things, and I’ll mention the most important thing first, but the thing that may not come first to mind for most folks, and the first thing it should focus on is mindset.

[00:16:22] Mindset, skillset, and a tool set, we’ll say. Why do I start with mindset? Because really that’s where change and personal growth happens in my experience with helping people with their leadership, personal leadership brand. Helping people see themselves as leaders, regardless of role, is a real mindset shift.

[00:16:46] Knowing that they must get work done with and through other people, they can then prioritize the relationship component of their work. This is really going to help them in so many ways. And you can imagine if you are a business leader or an HR leader, you can imagine the change that would bring to an organization when you have employees seeing themselves that way.

[00:17:11] And from that belief or that vision of themselves, they can then act in ways that really help move the organization forward. As an organization and as people within the organization. Of course, their skillset. One of those skillset is developing an emotional intelligence that is able to recognize how other people are feeling and being able to modulate how you approach them, depending on what the other person is experiencing or perceiving about the situation.

[00:17:45] It also includes things like communication, decision-making, and conflict resolution skills. It includes all of those things. And the third thing, a tool set, is basically giving them frameworks and resources that they can use in real time. Like how to run effective one-on-ones, how to facilitate team discussions, or how to manage up, across, and down.

[00:18:09] So when leadership at every level is beneficial to the organization, a deliberate effort should be made to train and develop all employees at all levels to use strategies and tools for influencing positively—I’m gonna say that again, sorry. When leadership at every level is beneficial to the organization, a deliberate effort should be made to train and develop all employees at all levels, to use strategies and tools for influencing positively, navigating conflicts, and resolving difficulties.

[00:18:42] In this way, organizations can empower timely decision making and appropriate accountability for decision made. As important as mindset, skillset, and tool set are, these only get you so far when your purpose is culture creation. At Peridot Circle Consulting, our mission is to help leaders lead and to help the best leaders become even better.

[00:19:08] And we know that leadership programs have greater transformational power when they are tailored to address the real issues within an organization and can provide a mechanism for those issues to be surfaced. This is something that is difficult to do with an HR led program because there’s a lot at stake for those who decide to surface difficult issues.

[00:19:30] As outside facilitators, we often partner with HR or the sponsoring leader to identify the issues from the organization’s perspective, and where possible, we also meet with those who are participating in the workshop and or their leaders to uncover the outcomes they hope to gain as a result of the training.

[00:19:52] Then we continue to work very closely with HR or the sponsoring leader throughout our engagement to keep them fully apprised of anything we uncover that they may not be aware of. We really try to cement a good partnership so that we’re working with and through HR and that sponsoring leader in order to create a real lasting impact through that training.

[00:20:16] And as the real issues are surfaced during these meetings, they help to provide the foundation for the workshop. We tailor our content to address those real issues we uncover, even when we uncover additional issues during the workshop. We think this is why many of our workshop participants call our trainings a transformational or career-changing experience. And all of this mindset, skillset, and toolset, and the application to real issues, need to be layered into everyday business. Not something you go to once a year, but something you live. And that’s our goal whenever we partner with HR or a sponsoring leader to help train and develop their people.

[00:21:00] Stephanie Willmore: That is such a critical point because sometimes we hear about leadership programs and workshops being a one-and-done workshop, or somebody said the other day, a drive-by workshop.

[00:21:12] And if you’re going to achieve that transformation, you’re gonna have to approach things a little bit differently. And how do those organizations ensure that continuity, that culture actually has some tangible change that lasts?

[00:21:27] Janet Taggart: Ensuring continuity to the training provided in leadership programs.

[00:21:31] It really does come down to three things. One is reinforcement, one is integration, and the other is accountability. Reinforcement means leaders model what they learn, and when we apply their learnings to real-life situation, it greatly enhances that ability to do that. It’s also giving them frameworks and strategies that help them address those real issues.

[00:22:01] Integration means leadership frameworks and strategies are actively applied and adapted in the course of everyday work, such as during team meetings, check-ins, and project debriefs. And accountability means you recognize leadership behaviors the same way you recognize performance metrics.

[00:22:18] Organizational values and expectations become the culture when promotions, rewards, and positive reinforcement is provided. When people take ownership appropriately, empower themselves to listen and engage with others respectfully toward overarching goals. And when that happens, leadership becomes “the way we do things around here.”

[00:22:41] Stephanie Willmore: Those are some great recommendations for having that cultural shift, and we’re gonna pivot for a second. We’re going to talk about something that a lot of our listeners face, and that is balancing the dynamic with hybrid and remote work. So in that kind of a situation, how do you foster leadership at every level when people aren’t physically together?

[00:23:04] Janet Taggart: That can present some real difficulties when it comes to how do we create this culture where there’s leadership at every level when people are apart? And I can tell you that in answer to that, the fundamentals don’t change. In fact, if anything, they become more important.

[00:23:25] In a hybrid or remote environment, intentionality is everything. Leaders at every level need to be proactive in communication. They can’t rely on bumping into somebody in the hallway or talking to someone before and after a meeting, or even during a meeting. They need to be deliberate in being inclusive. And that is more difficult when you have some people on the screen and some people not on the screen.

[00:23:54] And you also have to be very proactive in providing clear expectations. All of these things is true in a face-to-face environment, but in a remote or hybrid environment, it is more intentional and you must be more proactive in order to promote that. So you might need to coach your teams on how to hold virtual feedback sessions, how to advocate for themselves, how to navigate ambiguity because their leader or others on the team who can naturally help them do that aren’t right there.

[00:24:33] They have to proactively, again, reach out. Those are skills that are often assumed but rarely taught. And in essence, we often learn a lot of things by observation and noticing how other people do them. And so without that, by being in that remote environment, you do need to be more vigilant about how to coach your teams and how to encourage them to do the things that we often assume, but are actually taught and modeled.

[00:25:04] Stephanie Willmore: Yeah, I think that’s a really great point because when people aren’t physically together, they need to take the initiative to communicate and to have that shared responsibility of leadership and culture, I would say even more so than people who are present because that isn’t modeled to them daily. And so that transcends job title, right?

[00:25:22] We become, we all buy into the culture, and every time that we get together on a Zoom call or with the different objectives and initiatives, you become a multiplier, like you said earlier. Yeah, that’s a really great point. 

[00:25:36] Janet Taggart: Yeah. Like you said, everybody owns the culture and everyone owns the outcomes.

[00:25:41] And when you have that type of sense, even among the frontline employees, it really does create a synergistic atmosphere where work gets done. And it doesn’t slow down because a leader is busy doing something else of high value that employees can do their best within their influence and control to own the outcomes and to do their best to do the work and work on the relationships that are required to get the work done.

[00:26:16] Stephanie Willmore: Great. Thank you for sharing that. And as we wrap up, do you have any final thoughts for HR leaders or business executives who are trying to build and strengthen their leadership culture across the organization?

[00:26:30] Janet Taggart: I’d say this, you don’t need to wait for perfect conditions to start.

[00:26:36] You can simply start by articulating what leadership means in your organization, define the behaviors, and then build the structures to support them, and reach out to get the support you need. Culture creation by leaders at every level in every role is possible. And it starts when you elevate leadership for being something that the few people do to something that everyone practices.

[00:27:01] And as I mentioned earlier, the ripple effect is really incredible when you can create that kind of culture and create those types of organizational ambassadors. 

[00:27:11] Stephanie Willmore: This has been a fantastic conversation. Thank you for sharing all of your insights, Janet, and talking about how when HR leaders and business executives are looking to build out their culture and to implement it at every level of the organization, to get buy-in from every level that they can do so in a way that’s transformative, in ways that are related to mindset and the things that you wouldn’t always think of initially. So I feel like this has been really valuable. If any of you listening, whether you’re in HR or in a leadership position that is trying to develop their culture at their organization, Janet and Linda would love to partner with you in making those changes, in those shifts, and have a lot of wonderful tools to help you get started on that journey.

[00:27:54] And we are so grateful for you joining us today and listening to us, and we invite you to appreciate the experiences that have brought you here to this moment of your life’s journey. And we invite you to stay open to the possibilities within you. Until next time.

At Peridot Circle, we facilitate the growth and transformation of individuals, leaders, and emerging leaders of fast-growing tech-savvy organizations. If any of our listeners are interested in learning more about our approach to leadership coaching at Peridot Circle Consulting and how to help transform how you show up at work, book a consult with us online at peridotcircleconsulting.com. We would love to help you and your organization achieve more than ever before.