[00:00:00] Janet Taggart: I think what’s essential or foundational is the building of trust. And one of the ways you can do that is to show your team that you genuinely care about them as individuals. For example, take time to understand what drives each person. Some might be motivated by recognition while others by learning opportunities or meaningful work. When you know what matters to them, you can engage them more effectively. So really building that relationship of trust and showing that you care.

[00:00:40] Stephanie Willmore: Welcome to the Leadership Transformations Podcast. I’m your host, Stephanie Willmore, Accountability Coach at Peridot Circle Consulting. In this podcast, we explore real life situations with the help of our two founders and principal consultants, Janet Taggart and Linda Linfield. Today, we are joined again by Janet Taggart.

[00:01:00] Janet specializes in empowering leadership transformation from the inside out, coaching aspiring to executive leaders to become known for their highest value. Thank you for joining us, Janet. 

[00:01:12] Janet Taggart: Thank you, Stephanie. It’s great to be here. I’m excited to talk today about how leaders can take intentional steps on how to address satisfaction and engagement with their teams. It makes such a difference. 

[00:01:24] Stephanie Willmore: Yes, thank you for coming and talking about this. This is an issue that almost every leader in tech addresses at some point. But let’s start with the basics. What would you say is the difference between job satisfaction and employee engagement? 

[00:01:39] Janet Taggart: These two terms get intermixed a lot, and it’s important to know what the difference is. Job or Employee Satisfaction is really about how content someone feels in their role. It covers things like whether they feel their work is meaningful. Whether they like what they’re doing, their responsibilities, and if they believe that they’re being fairly treated. Engagement, on the other hand, goes deeper.

[00:02:08] It’s an emotional connection to the organization and its goals. It is something that motivates employees to put forth discretionary effort so that they’re not just getting the job done, but they’re actually becoming multipliers in the way that they work. And that happens when employees are engaged and they’re motivated to give their best, even when things get tough.

[00:02:34] In tech, it’s especially important because there’s often rapid change and high pressure environments. And these two elements are critical. Satisfied and engaged employees are more productive, more creative, and better collaborators, all of which are essential for delivering great products and staying competitive.

[00:02:57] Stephanie Willmore: So what you’re saying is that it’s really important for people to not only keep people happy, but make sure that they feel realize their full potential and that they have both opportunities to feel like their needs are met and they can develop as a person or as a leader. 

[00:03:13] Janet Taggart: Yeah, for sure. And when you invest in these areas, you’re not just helping employees. You’re driving better outcomes for the entire organization. Another way you can think about job satisfaction and employee engagement is overlaying Abraham Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. Many of us have heard of that model. It’s a motivational theory that has five tiers or levels of human needs illustrated as a pyramid. Starting from the bottom of the pyramid, you have physiological needs. Second, you have safety and security needs, the need to be safe and feel safe. Third is the loving, love and belonging, our needs as human beings to be loved, to belong. A lot of times we find that in family or friendship, but some kind of sense of connection.

[00:04:05] Fourth, we need to be esteemed and well thought of. This allows us to have confidence, to feel a sense of achievement, have the respect of others and to be authentic.=, and then finally, the fifth at the top of the pyramid is that need for self actualization. And that’s where creativity, purpose, meaning, and potential come into play.

[00:04:26] Stephanie Willmore: Well, that’s so interesting. And speaking of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, how do you apply that to job satisfaction and employee engagement? 

[00:04:35] Janet Taggart: Job satisfaction elements, those things, you know, is the employee satisfied? Are they feeling like they can contribute well? That tends to relate more to the bottom tiers of this hierarchy of needs.

[00:04:51] We can say, do our employees feel safe? Do they feel like they have all the necessary tools to do their work well? That would be the physiological needs at the bottom of the pyramid. Employees who feels, do they feel supported? And that their employer is concerned about their well being. That would be the security level or the second tier up from the bottom.

[00:05:16] Those two tiers also relate to compensation, which is the biggest driver of job satisfaction. So pay scale, it should be competitive and allow employees to maintain an above average quality of work, especially when you’re talking about experienced and knowledgeable tech workers. Benefits that the items, these are items of course beyond pay that contribute to the physical and mental wellbeing.

[00:05:42] In other words, financial wellness. There’s work-life balance as well. That’s part of a job satisfaction issue. 62% of workers feel work-life balance is the most important element for a company’s culture that fosters success. Having that work-life balance is important. This element is being tested in the workplace right now in particular for employers who are requiring their workers to come back to the office. So there’s a different paradigm if you will about work-life balance related to whether or not you work in an office or if you can work from home remote in a remote environment. Recognition is also a job satisfaction issue.

[00:06:24] Employees want to feel like what they do is appreciated. Now some people appreciate more public forms of recognition while others don’t want that at all, but they like other forms of recognition. It doesn’t always have to be a public display. And then they want to be able to do their job well.

[00:06:43] Employees want to have the resources and tool to do their job well. It helps them feel satisfied, helps them feel a sense of accomplishment. And this is especially true with people in tech, I think. I’ve worked with so many leaders in this space and there’s such a great intention of wanting to do right by the organization.

[00:07:07] And it’s a big driver, I think, for these, those types of individuals. That’s all job satisfaction. The second, of course, is employee engagement elements. And these are focused on employee development and future needs. And those relate to the higher or upper levels of the pyramid. That love and belonging, esteem, self actualization.

[00:07:32] Engagement issues are things like, do employees feel engaged, connected to their team and are they looking out for each other? Do employees feel confident in their ability to do good work and that they’re contributing to the company? Do they know what the company expects of them?

[00:07:51] Right? That’s one of the measures. And are they actually able to make a difference? That’s that esteem element. Employees feeling inspired to do their best work and help their team and their company is also that self actualization. You can see how they relate—not perfectly, but they relate.

[00:08:11] So the tiers for employee engagement, inspiring leadership where company leaders interact with employees to increase their involvement in the company’s growth. Career development. According to LinkedIn’s 2019 Workplace Learning Report, the number one reason Millennials and Gen Zers quit their job is because of the lack of learning and career development opportunities.

[00:08:36] Those up and coming leaders really want that development. And then internal communication, which is also a huge area for growth and development. And it is the ability to connect and receive regular updates and quickly resolve issues that’s critical for employees to feel like they belong, so that they feel confident, and they feel enabled to do their best work.

[00:09:00] Also a culture of diversity, that openness to new ideas and creating opportunity for everyone. 

[00:09:06] Stephanie Willmore: So it sounds like both job satisfaction and engagement is such an important part of retaining talent, but what about when one of those two areas is not met. Let’s talk about job dissatisfaction or when job satisfaction is not being met.

[00:09:23] What are some of the warning signs that leaders should look for if job satisfaction is not being met in their company culture?

[00:09:31] Janet Taggart: Well, there’s another of indicators for a lack of job satisfaction. There are surveys that people do to determine this. And oftentimes employers will actually conduct employee engagement surveys not realizing that they actually have a job satisfaction issue as well. One of the red flags is you notice when somebody’s enthusiasm is fading. Someone who heretofore has volunteered to do things and been passionate about going the extra mile, trying to give that discretionary effort to get things over the finish line.

[00:10:11] These people will stop volunteering for projects or seem less interested in even contributing ideas towards solutions. Another red flag is when frustration starts to creep into team dynamics. It can be subtle negativity or outright complaints. And another red flag is high turnover and even subtle shifts like employees quietly looking for other opportunities. These are all major signs that jobs dissatisfaction is creeping into your organization. 

[00:10:45] Stephanie Willmore: Based on your experience in talking to leaders, what do you think might be some of the root causes of that frustration? 

[00:10:51] Janet Taggart: As we’ve worked with a number of tech organizations, one of the things we hear over and over again is the problem with unclear expectations.

[00:11:02] In environments where priorities and timelines are constantly shifting, employees wonder if their efforts today will be discarded tomorrow in pursuit of the next biggest priority. Organizations do need to shift to address market and economic changes. And when these shifts take place in rapid succession, they really take their toll on job satisfaction and feed into the next root cause, which is burnout.

[00:11:27] Burnout where these employees are facing those tight deadlines and high workloads can lead to exhaustion if not managed well. And finally, another is a lack of growth opportunities. Tech professionals want to keep learning and advancing, even when those pathways aren’t clear and dissatisfaction sets in. Often when opportunities are not consistently communicated, it can cause talented employees to start looking elsewhere. 

[00:11:58] Stephanie Willmore: Say a leader comes to you, a seasoned leader comes to you and is noticing some of these things on their team, what are some of the recommendations you have for them to tackle some of those issues?

[00:12:09] Janet Taggart: I think surveys are great, but really the conversation. And having one on one conversations on a regular basis is a fantastic tool. And one of the important things, I think, as you go into those conversations is not to predispose the outcome to the questions that you ask.

[00:12:35] In other words, don’t assume that the employee just doesn’t understand what’s going on, especially if there’s a complaint. But really try to dig underneath what they’re trying to say to see if there’s something that you as the leader aren’t aware of. So that you can either help clear up or dig deeper to understand that there’s maybe something beyond what’s obvious.

[00:13:00] But, right, what’s obvious to that employee that may not be obvious to you as a leader. And to be open to the idea that maybe it’s not just the employee who doesn’t understand. Another in those conversations, asking open ended questions like, what’s been the most challenging for you recently?

[00:13:20] Or how do you feel your role? How do you feel about your role and where it’s heading? And it’s, again, it’s key to listen, to listen well with empathy and curiosity, being open to the idea that you’re there to learn and there’s a nuance or there’s a clear line of delineation between what you understand right now and what the employee sees for themselves.

[00:13:44] So that is key. Be careful not to jump too quickly or defend or explain. I often say, perception forms reality. And even if it’s a perception issue with an employee, the only way you’re going to find out about the reality that they’re perceiving is through empathy and curiosity. So you can determine if there’s a communication gap or really a gap that needs to be filled.

[00:14:11] Stephanie Willmore: That’s really great advice. And I think that using those Natural opportunities in one on ones and just opening the communication channels and the active listening could really just help you get that information from your team in a really natural and authentic way. So I think that’s really, really great advice.

[00:14:30] Let’s then move on to engagement. What are some things that, what are some signs that kind of tell a leader that maybe their employees are starting to lose their engagement or they’re not as invested in their work as like they used to be? 

[00:14:44] Janet Taggart: Well, very similar to job satisfaction, but different. Disengaged employees often show minimal collaboration or initiative.

[00:14:53] Now, this may feel similar to a lack of job satisfaction, but it goes beyond. Disengaged employees may only do the bare minimum, or they may seem checked out in meetings. Another sign is resistance to change. Engaged employees are more likely to embrace new ideas and challenges, where disengaged employees are more resistant to those changes and challenges.

[00:15:18] Stephanie Willmore: So why do you think engagement is particularly tricky for tech leaders? 

[00:15:22] Janet Taggart: Tech teams often work in remote or hybrid environments, which makes it harder to pick up on subtle cues like body language and resistance to change and such. Plus tech employees value autonomy. It’s a balancing act between giving them space and staying connected.

[00:15:42] Stephanie Willmore: That’s really insightful. So how can leaders rebuild that connection and kind of synergize their team again? 

[00:15:48] Janet Taggart: I think what’s essential or foundational is the building of trust. And one of the ways you can do that is to show your team that you genuinely care about them as individuals. For example, take time to understand what drives each person.

[00:16:04] Some might be motivated by recognition, while others by learning opportunities or meaningful work. When you know what matters to them, you can engage them more effectively. So really building that relationship of trust and showing that you care. Also, when you find an issue, whether it be a satisfaction or engagement issue that truly needs to be addressed to your leaders and beyond, you will need to be able to stand up to your leaders while also demonstrating your support. This is a little tricky. We often tell leaders who need to advocate for their teams that they aren’t doing their jobs if they don’t let their boss know what they see and the impact it’s having on the team. If you see a satisfaction or engagement issue, you as a leader need to stand up and be able to describe that in a way that your leader can understand so that you can begin to work on a solution together.

[00:17:00] Stephanie Willmore: That’s so helpful. So if a leader came to you, they’re recognizing this job dissatisfaction and also a need to re-engage employees. What are some practical recommendations overall that you would give to them if they were to ask you that question? 

[00:17:16] Janet Taggart: First I’d say focus on clarity and alignment. Make sure every team member understands how their work contributes to larger goals.

[00:17:24] The sense of purpose is incredibly motivating. And you want to do this in a real and authentic way, not just, “I told them that their work contributes,” but actually finding instances, noticing how, what they’re doing is making a difference and how that will feed itself up, pay itself upward, to the organization as a whole.

[00:17:47] So it takes some ability of the leader to be able to make those connections. Second, promote autonomy while providing support. Tech employees thrive when they have ownership of their work, but they also need to know you’re there to back them up when needed. So when they hit a wall, when they’re having difficulty advocating for what needs to be done across, across the organization, your support, your ability to help them help themselves is essential here.

[00:18:21] And then recognition is another big one. Celebrate achievements, big and especially small, in ways that resonate with your team whether it’s a shout out in a meeting or a personal thank you note. Achievements, we often think of achievements as the big project being done. And that can also feel like to the employee that in order to do my job, I have to–it’s only the finish line that matters.

[00:18:55] And what we’re finding is that because tech employees are so interested in following best practice, that they don’t feel a sense of accomplishment or achievement when incremental improvements take place. I mean, you don’t want to celebrate everything, but noticing the incremental achievements as well as the big achievements, I think, is key.

[00:19:22] Stephanie Willmore: That’s a really great insight. And what about burnout? How can leaders better address that? 

[00:19:27] Janet Taggart: Well, you would encourage your team to set boundaries and for you, you should set the example. If you’re sending emails at 10 PM and your team is going to take that as, “In order to succeed here, I need to be on at that time too.”

[00:19:42] You want to be careful about what you’re setting as a precedent of what success or what achieving well looks like. You need the work life balance as well to avoid burnout yourself. Also make sure the workloads are realistic and really listen to your team’s concerns. And ask them questions like, “Is the work you’re being asked to do realistic and reasonable to take place within regular work hours?” And listen to what they have to say.

[00:20:18] Yes, we expect our employees to work a little beyond the boundary sometimes, right? when the situation calls for it. We also don’t want that to be the norm. So making sure workloads are realistic, making sure that you’re setting a proper example as the leader will help your team a lot in these ways.

[00:20:43] Stephanie Willmore: Thank you. That was so insightful and helpful. I think you offered so many practical ways that leaders can address both the need for job satisfaction and the need for engagement because these are all needs, right? I think that’s why you brought up Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs is that it’s a tiered scale of needs, but they’re all important in order to retain talent and to keep people energized and innovated.

[00:21:09] So I think that’s really, really helpful for leaders to consider as they think about how to improve their company culture. Do you have any other takeaways you want to add to this conversation?

[00:21:20] Janet Taggart: Yeah, I think improving job satisfaction engagement. Isn’t about making sweeping changes or big initiatives. It’s really about consistent and intentional effort. Relationships are built in conversation. When you can start having or continue having honest conversations with your team and listening to what they need, small, thoughtful actions can create big ripple effects. 

[00:21:48] Stephanie Willmore: I think that’s so helpful and I love that because I think that when we think of things incrementally and progress over perfection, then we feel like it’s attainable, right?

[00:21:57] We can make these shifts and change and hopefully have some really impactful outcomes as a result. So thank you so much for joining us and offering those insights. And to our listeners, we invite you to appreciate the experiences that have brought you here to this moment of your life’s journey. And we invite you to stay open to the possibilities within you.

[00:22:19] You are meant for greater things. Until next time.

At Peridot Circle, we facilitate the growth and transformation of individuals, leaders, and emerging leaders of fast-growing tech-savvy organizations. If any of our listeners are interested in learning more about our approach to leadership coaching at Peridot Circle Consulting and how to help transform how you show up at work, book a consult with us online at peridotcircleconsulting.com. We would love to help you and your organization achieve more than ever before.